INTERVIEW: Noreen Haigh, PA ProVisual

Noreen: Good evening, Sir. Ready when you are.

Tony: Yes ma’am back as soon as my hot chocolate is ready Sorry can’t offer you any but here’s [emoticon of a coffee cup].

Noreen: It’s a really warm night here – a nice cold drink would be perfect.

Tony: So you work for Pro Visual which is based in Sydney, and you are based in Brisbane?

Noreen: Yes.

Tony: How does the business operate from different cities?

Noreen: Phillip Debs, the director of Pro Visual and I, use sms, video calls (both using mobile phones and the internet), instant messaging (like we are now), email and once, we even used the National Relay Service!

Tony: National Relay Service!? That’s ancient! [Laughter]

Noreen: ….and of course, there are the occasional visits down to Sydney.

Tony: By the sounds of it, you are not flustered by the idea/ reality of working with Deaf people and using different communication modes.

Noreen: Nah, are you kidding? It’s a no brainer.

Tony: Yeah, but for many hearing people, they cannot see past the “TELEPHONE.”

Noreen: Yes, this I know, sadly.

Tony: Irrespective of the communication choices available.

Noreen: True. For many hearing folk, mention the word “Deaf”, and they equate that to some alien life form! [Laughter].

Tony: Yeah…[Laughter]…… so what prompted you to work with a Deafie?

Noreen: Well, really, I just fell upon it. I met Phillip through a mutual friend at Burwood Deaf club. Our initial contact was just the usual, “Hi, how are you?” thing, but after a little while we got an opportunity to sit down and have an extended conversation about business. I’ve had experience in the banking industry, so I know a bit about money and business, and it all kind of fell into place from there.

Tony: Were you apprehensive at all?

Noreen: Honestly? Not for a second.

Tony: What was going through your mind at the time?

Noreen: I was impressed not only by Phillip’s communication skills, but by his intelligence, his depth of creativity, and his ambition.

Tony: But you’ve already had exposure to Deafness. You have a Deaf  son right?

Noreen: Correct. I have a Deaf son. He was diagnosed through the newborn hearing screening at the Canberra hospital, he was born 2 months premature, with severe jaundice, almost required a blood exchange but at the 11th hour, was spared that. I think it was the jaundice that damaged his hearing.

Tony: Would you say all that fortified you to meet the relatively simpler challenge of [your son’s] Deafness?

Noreen: I am a strong person anyway, Tony. Coping with all of that was just one step along my path in life.

Tony: Mmmm

Noreen: I miscarried my first pregnancy, and I really wanted my son. I had some tests done earlier in the pregnancy that showed a possibility that he could have been born with Down’s Syndrome, but I decided that, no matter what, I wanted him. I loved him before I knew him, and I knew it didn’t matter to me how he came into this world, I would still love him, and would make a good life for him. Really, his Deafness was a relief.

Tony: That’s a strange thing to say in a sense because many people would say it, the Deafness, itself, is a calamity. But you have embraced it.

Noreen: He is a beautiful, cheeky little boy, with blond hair and blue eyes and a stubborn streak, just like his mum! His deafness makes no difference to how I love him.

Tony: [Laughter]. From the conversations we have had, when I say you have embraced his Deafness, is that you see right through it to the personality. That’s what seems to be with you and Phillip. This comes across quite strongly in the tale of the National Relay Service you related earlier. [Sorry folks, due to editing considerations, this tale had to be edited out!]

Noreen: Yeah. I hope you understand what I mean when I say I just really don’t see his Deafness as a big deal. I know there are a lot of issues to be dealt with in relation to it,

Tony: That comes through loud and clear.

Noreen: But for me it’s not a big deal. My son is still my son, and Phillip is still another human being.

Tony: Yes but you are working with Phillip as a professional and using the different communication methods, treating it as a normal thing. So much, that you can actually share the humour of the situations, as people. Not Deafie and Hearie.

Noreen: It’s funny, you know, no-one’s ever pointed that out to me until just now.

Tony: That’s the beauty of actually relating to people what makes for successful partnerships.

Noreen: Yes, you’re right.

Tony: Sure you are Phillip’s ears, but you come to share the experience. Many Deaf people in the work place don’t often achieve that same sense of solidarity with their hearing colleagues.

Noreen: That is such a shame. I feel sorry for the hearing folk – they miss out on a lot by remaining ignorant.

Tony: Tell me, do you get Deaf humour?

Noreen: Not always of course but then, Deafies don’t always get hearing humour either. It’s a cultural thing.

Tony: Yes.

Noreen: I went to see Rob Roy when he was at Burwood RSL [Sydney, NSW, Australia] there was quite a bit of stuff in there that I just didn’t find funny. But Phillip explained to me and I was like “Oh, right…….” [Laughter]

Tony: I’m finding it rather interesting that you, a hearing person, is showing no fear of the DEAF aspect of your professional working relationships with Phillip. There’s that word again, are actually embracing it.

Noreen: Why is that so interesting?

Tony: It’s not the usual “Hearing Helping Deafie” relationship. It is a professional relationship. I rarely see such positive examples of Deaf and hearing professionals work so well together, and it as groundbreaking in a way.

Noreen: Again, I’ll be honest Tony – I don’t see it as anything but me working for Phillip and helping him to build his business…… but it is exciting to think Phillip and I are a rare team !

Tony: Yes and much needed role models, for Deaf people who want to succeed and also Deaf people who want to embrace [damn that word] their hearing colleagues.

Noreen: It’s so funny you using that phrase, role models. I never had the thought in my mind that that is what I would be for ANYONE – [Laughter] I just think – I work for Phillip. He happens to be Deaf. That’s it. [Laughter]

Tony: Well look at it this way, I am Deaf and want to build a production company. So for me, seeing people like Phillip is encouragement to go out and do it. But more to the point, an example of a Deaf person breaking stereotype in the type of work he is doing, and that he is working with a hearing person as an equal, and successfully. This is also a morale booster for Deaf people like me as it shows that these kind of professional relationships CAN work and DO Work.

Noreen: Mmm, I can see how important that is. But I really must say, I do think Phillip and I, as individuals, have made this partnership what it is. I don’t think you could just pluck any Deaf person and any hearing person and make them work together and have it be successful, if you get me.

Tony: That’s true, but traditionally Deaf and Hearing relationships have been stymied by the Deafness barrier so you and Phillip are breaking new ground in that way.

Noreen: That is very interesting to me. Again, it just never occurred to me that we are so uncommon. It is something I just never thought about.

Tony: I get people who say I have helped them or inspired them in some way, and scratch my head to work out how. Often it is just about doing or just being yourself.

Noreen: EXACTLY – that is it in a nutshell. I am just being myself!

Tony: And the company you work for is ProVisual?

Noreen: Yes, that’s right, Phillip Debs ProVisual. It is a multidisciplinary company, focusing on photography and film making.

Tony: That makes sense for a Deafie to do eh? *smiling*?

Noreen: Yes, of course. It is visual communication.

Tony: [Nodding in agreement] Yes it would be for a Deafie. Even for me, who has grown upon with some sound, as in music and speech, I find that the visual arts hold the greater attraction.

Noreen: Naturally you saw Phillip’s short film, Torture?

Tony: It was on at the Deaf Arts festival in 2008. Yes very Tarantino!

Noreen: That was the very first piece of work he showed me. I was absolutely blown away when I saw it.

Tony: Like I said very Tarantino.

Noreen: From that moment, I knew I was working with a man of great potential and yes, VERY Tarantino.

Tony: Before coming to work with Pro Visual, did you ever entertain the idea of working with the Deaf, especially on an equal basis/ level?

Noreen: Never. But only because I had never been exposed to the Deaf community, never came across a Deaf person who owned their own business.

Tony: And what did you think when you met Phil, a Deaf business owner?

Noreen: As an individual, I find him extremely intelligent and articulate. The medium he has chosen to express his creativity through fits him perfectly. And I can honestly say I am impressed by his determination and his aspirations. As a business owner, I have shared Phillip’s frustrations and have experienced through him the prejudices and ignorance of the wider world. It has opened my eyes.

Tony: How much of it is common to your experience as a woman in the workforce?

Noreen: Well, to be honest, I have had no problems in my working life. The greatest hindrance I see for Phillip is hearing people and their ignorance. It is interesting, because, when Phillip and I are at a meeting together, often the hearing person will address only me, which I find completely irritating and embarrassing. Other times, when it is not a pre-arranged meeting, people assume, because I sign to Phillip, that I am Deaf also, which can be quite funny.

Tony: Yes, that is funny.

Noreen: But the worst thing is to feel their condescension. Simply because communication is presented to them in a different manner often it scares them, and they don’t know how to react, or they think you are stupid because you don’t speak. I hate it.
I hate it because I have experienced it. I hate it because it embarrasses me to be a part of the Hearing community, but the only way to overcome it is to educate people on both sides

Tony: Are you able to do that as part of your work?

Noreen: Absolutely! And I am proud to say I work for Phillip – I think it says a great deal about both of us as individuals.

Tony: I’ve asked this question of a Deaf friend of mine, who has worked in various management, director, and CEO roles, and he says networking is a nightmare, for various reasons, one of which is overcoming that communication barrier and fear of Deafness. He has his own method of overcoming it, what methods do you employ? [See Damian Barry Interview]

Noreen: And his method is ?

Tony: If he is with an interpreter, he will explain the role of the interpreter and how the process works….putting them at ease.

Noreen: My method is to let people know if they wish to communicate with Phillip directly, they can email, sms, national relay service, or interpreter. Phillip’s command of English makes it easy to communicate with him in written form, and if they wish to speak with him, he lip reads.

Tony: Ah that trusty skill, lip-reading.

Noreen: It astounds me how he does it. I have tried – waaaay too hard!

Tony: I quite agree with you there, I am a bona fide Deafie, and find it damn hard to lip read. I get eye strain [cue: bored] and what about networking?

Noreen: Phillip’s outgoing personality means he is not afraid to approach people and make contacts. But of course it is easier for me to do so.

Tony: [Laughter] But how do you see your work with ProVisual in terms of your career? What do you get out of it professionally in terms of your own development?

Noreen: That’s easy my previous experience has been: retail, banking, primary school teacher, security guard, and customer service. Phillip is the first Deaf person I’ve worked with. The first artist I’ve worked with. The first photographer / film maker I’ve worked with. So this experience exposes me to a whole new field. This position in particular is a huge learning curve, because although I bring previous experience and skills to this job I have never actually worked in this field.

Tony: Do you see this as potentially a long term thing?

Noreen: Absolutely. One hundred per cent! Although I did write out my job description, should Phillip ever feel the need to hire someone new – [Laughter]

Tony: Well you can come work for me, we can’t let all that experience go to waste [Laughter]

Noreen: Now, Now Tony [mock scolding] At this point in time, I am fully focused on working with Phillip to get ProVisual off the ground. I am nothing if not loyal.

Tony: That’s a good thing, that. But if you do move on, you would be able to work in either the Deaf or Hearing worlds, or even a combination of both and do it quite successfully.

Noreen: For sure. Having experience working with a Deaf person also means I have the ability to put that in a resume – as coarse as that may sound.

Tony: Yes but I am thinking of your potential as a Hearing person to bridge the Deaf and Hearing worlds. Possibly providing or creating new services?

Noreen: That sounds rather ominous for an orindary Joe like me – [Laughter]

Tony: You don’t see that?

Noreen: I see it now that it has been brought to my attention.

Tony: But seriously Noreen, you know a hearing person who can sign but also has that attitude of embracing Deafness – that is a great thing to have.

Noreen: Yes, I understand that. But what I don’t think I am articulating particularly well is the fact that it just simply never occurred to me that I was doing anything special just by working with Phillip. And that’s the plain and simple truth of it all.

Tony: I have gathered that only I am projecting as a Deaf person who has never really seen it before and is excited by the possibilities you and Phillip offer, unassuming as you are, it’s there! We agree on that?

Noreen: Yeah, sure. Then spread the word, brother!! [Laughter]

Tony: [Laughter] Projecting further into your future where do you see yourself heading?

Noreen: Politics. Again, my son is a huge motivating factor. I don’t necessarily mean I will become an mp or anything (although the thought has crossed my mind)

Tony: [Smiling]

Noreen: but I would like to be involved in changing things for the better in relation to “Deaf related issues”.

Tony: Just Deaf related issues? What about better Deaf and hearing relationships? Or do you see one as a natural outcome of the other?

Noreen: Pffft!! Just by changing something like fully captioned TV would help Deaf and hearing relationships so yes, one would be a natural outcome stemming from the other.

Tony: So youu would agree with me, that in a sense, your current position is indeed inspirational if not groundbreaking?

Noreen: Agreed.

Tony: Yay! Deafie wins! [Laughter]

Noreen: Yeah….I am truly gobsmacked to think I can be such an influential person.

Tony: Well as Paul Kelly once sang: From little things big things grow!

Noreen: So true.

Tony: So you ought to be proud – it’s not just for us Deaf professionals, but also for your Deaf son who will see the possibilities for himself – his mum having successful relationships with Deaf people.

Noreen: And that is precisely why I will continue to do what I do. It is all for my son.

Tony: I cannot countenance that. Every mother I know says just as much.

Noreen: Of course.

Tony: But tell me have you ever been roped into being Phillip’s interpreter?

Noreen: [Laughter], Sometimes the occassion calls for it, but Phillip himself has never asked me to do that.

Tony: Not even at networking events?

Noreen: No. But I will give you an example. Phillip attended Rosemount Australian Fashion Week as an official photographer. I know if I had been able to attend as well, we would have gotten a whole lot more out of that event than we did. Simply because I am hearing and it would have been easier for me to talk with people.

Tony: OK, let me take it in a different direction. One of the exciting possibilities I think about, is carving out a new space where Deaf and Hearing can interact without so many limitations. A space where more Hearing people are encouraged to embrace Deafness and perhaps alternative communication methods.

Noreen: Yes, that would be utopia!

Tony: *thinking* Yes but that would be a topic for another time…

Noreen: Yeah.

Tony: And on that note Noreen, let’s tie up for now, I am getting google eyed. I would like to thank you for the opportunity to chat with. It’s been a pleasure.

Noreen: Cheers. Don’t forget that hot chocolate!