Professional Deaf Australians: Meet & Greet, 30 January 2010
The first social event for the Professional Deaf Australians [PDA] social and networking group, was held on Saturday 30 Janaury 2010. It was a successful first event, and more are in the pipeline.
The venue, Kelly’s On King, is fast become popular with Deafies as a meeting place of choice. It possesses a good vibe, which is why it was chosen for PDA’s first social event.
The people who attended this event were Deaf and Hearing, and all shared a common arts, media, and IT background. As you can see from the following pictures, a good time was had by all.
Phillip Debs Makes A Point, While Peter "DeafBoyOne" Listens With Intent!
One Concentrating, While Two Pose!
Donovan Mulligan, Liam Blakers, Davo Hardy, Noreen McCabe
Mal Casey, Our Intrepid Yukker Enjoying a Beer!
Mal Casey, Phillip Debs, and Peter Waller AKA DeafBoyOne
Gemma Jones, Graphic Artist, Listens as Davo Tells Her About His Latest Film Venture!
Yours Truly, AKA Mephisto Averts The Camera's Gaze as Gemma and Davo Mug It Up!
Last but Not Least, We Were Graced By The Presence of Truman Capote!
INTERVIEW: Noreen Haigh, PA ProVisual
For many hearing folk, mention the word “Deaf”, and they equate that to some alien life form!
Noreen: Good evening, Sir. Ready when you are.
Tony: Yes ma’am back as soon as my hot chocolate is ready 
Sorry can’t offer you any but here’s [emoticon of a coffee cup].
Noreen: It’s a really warm night here – a nice cold drink would be perfect.
Tony: So you work for Pro Visual which is based in Sydney, and you are based in Brisbane?
Noreen: Yes.
Tony: How does the business operate from different cities?
Noreen: Phillip Debs, the director of Pro Visual and I, use sms, video calls (both using mobile phones and the internet), instant messaging (like we are now), email and once, we even used the National Relay Service!
Tony: National Relay Service!? That’s ancient! [Laughter]
Noreen: ….and of course, there are the occasional visits down to Sydney.
Tony: By the sounds of it, you are not flustered by the idea/ reality of working with Deaf people and using different communication modes.
Noreen: Nah, are you kidding? It’s a no brainer.
Tony: Yeah, but for many hearing people, they cannot see past the “TELEPHONE.”
Noreen: Yes, this I know, sadly.
Tony: Irrespective of the communication choices available.
Noreen: True. For many hearing folk, mention the word “Deaf”, and they equate that to some alien life form! [Laughter].
Tony: Yeah…[Laughter]…… so what prompted you to work with a Deafie?
Noreen: Well, really, I just fell upon it. I met Phillip through a mutual friend at Burwood Deaf club. Our initial contact was just the usual, “Hi, how are you?” thing, but after a little while we got an opportunity to sit down and have an extended conversation about business. I’ve had experience in the banking industry, so I know a bit about money and business, and it all kind of fell into place from there.
Tony: Were you apprehensive at all?
Noreen: Honestly? Not for a second.
Tony: What was going through your mind at the time?
Noreen: I was impressed not only by Phillip’s communication skills, but by his intelligence, his depth of creativity, and his ambition.
Tony: But you’ve already had exposure to Deafness. You have a Deaf son right?
Noreen: Correct. I have a Deaf son. He was diagnosed through the newborn hearing screening at the Canberra hospital, he was born 2 months premature, with severe jaundice, almost required a blood exchange but at the 11th hour, was spared that. I think it was the jaundice that damaged his hearing.
Tony: Would you say all that fortified you to meet the relatively simpler challenge of [your son’s] Deafness?
Noreen: I am a strong person anyway, Tony. Coping with all of that was just one step along my path in life.
Tony: Mmmm
Noreen: I miscarried my first pregnancy, and I really wanted my son. I had some tests done earlier in the pregnancy that showed a possibility that he could have been born with Down’s Syndrome, but I decided that, no matter what, I wanted him. I loved him before I knew him, and I knew it didn’t matter to me how he came into this world, I would still love him, and would make a good life for him. Really, his Deafness was a relief.
Tony: That’s a strange thing to say in a sense because many people would say it, the Deafness, itself, is a calamity. But you have embraced it.
Noreen: He is a beautiful, cheeky little boy, with blond hair and blue eyes and a stubborn streak, just like his mum! His deafness makes no difference to how I love him.
Tony: [Laughter]. From the conversations we have had, when I say you have embraced his Deafness, is that you see right through it to the personality. That’s what seems to be with you and Phillip. This comes across quite strongly in the tale of the National Relay Service you related earlier. [Sorry folks, due to editing considerations, this tale had to be edited out!]
Noreen: Yeah. I hope you understand what I mean when I say I just really don’t see his Deafness as a big deal. I know there are a lot of issues to be dealt with in relation to it,
Tony: That comes through loud and clear.
Noreen: But for me it’s not a big deal. My son is still my son, and Phillip is still another human being.
Tony: Yes but you are working with Phillip as a professional and using the different communication methods, treating it as a normal thing. So much, that you can actually share the humour of the situations, as people. Not Deafie and Hearie.
Noreen: It’s funny, you know, no-one’s ever pointed that out to me until just now.
Tony: That’s the beauty of actually relating to people what makes for successful partnerships.
Noreen: Yes, you’re right.
Tony: Sure you are Phillip’s ears, but you come to share the experience. Many Deaf people in the work place don’t often achieve that same sense of solidarity with their hearing colleagues.
Noreen: That is such a shame. I feel sorry for the hearing folk – they miss out on a lot by remaining ignorant.
Tony: Tell me, do you get Deaf humour?
Noreen: Not always of course but then, Deafies don’t always get hearing humour either. It’s a cultural thing.
Tony: Yes.
Noreen: I went to see Rob Roy when he was at Burwood RSL [Sydney, NSW, Australia] there was quite a bit of stuff in there that I just didn’t find funny. But Phillip explained to me and I was like “Oh, right…….” [Laughter]
Tony: I’m finding it rather interesting that you, a hearing person, is showing no fear of the DEAF aspect of your professional working relationships with Phillip. There’s that word again, are actually embracing it.
Noreen: Why is that so interesting?
Tony: It’s not the usual “Hearing Helping Deafie” relationship. It is a professional relationship. I rarely see such positive examples of Deaf and hearing professionals work so well together, and it as groundbreaking in a way.
Noreen: Again, I’ll be honest Tony – I don’t see it as anything but me working for Phillip and helping him to build his business…… but it is exciting to think Phillip and I are a rare team !
Tony: Yes and much needed role models, for Deaf people who want to succeed and also Deaf people who want to embrace [damn that word] their hearing colleagues.
Noreen: It’s so funny you using that phrase, role models. I never had the thought in my mind that that is what I would be for ANYONE – [Laughter] I just think – I work for Phillip. He happens to be Deaf. That’s it. [Laughter]
Tony: Well look at it this way, I am Deaf and want to build a production company. So for me, seeing people like Phillip is encouragement to go out and do it. But more to the point, an example of a Deaf person breaking stereotype in the type of work he is doing, and that he is working with a hearing person as an equal, and successfully. This is also a morale booster for Deaf people like me as it shows that these kind of professional relationships CAN work and DO Work.
Noreen: Mmm, I can see how important that is. But I really must say, I do think Phillip and I, as individuals, have made this partnership what it is. I don’t think you could just pluck any Deaf person and any hearing person and make them work together and have it be successful, if you get me.
Tony: That’s true, but traditionally Deaf and Hearing relationships have been stymied by the Deafness barrier so you and Phillip are breaking new ground in that way.
Noreen: That is very interesting to me. Again, it just never occurred to me that we are so uncommon. It is something I just never thought about.
Tony: I get people who say I have helped them or inspired them in some way, and scratch my head to work out how. Often it is just about doing or just being yourself.
Noreen: EXACTLY – that is it in a nutshell. I am just being myself!
Tony: And the company you work for is ProVisual?
Noreen: Yes, that’s right, Phillip Debs ProVisual. It is a multidisciplinary company, focusing on photography and film making.
Tony: That makes sense for a Deafie to do eh? *smiling*?
Noreen: Yes, of course. It is visual communication.
Tony: [Nodding in agreement] Yes it would be for a Deafie. Even for me, who has grown upon with some sound, as in music and speech, I find that the visual arts hold the greater attraction.
Noreen: Naturally you saw Phillip’s short film, Torture?
Tony: It was on at the Deaf Arts festival in 2008. Yes very Tarantino!
Noreen: That was the very first piece of work he showed me. I was absolutely blown away when I saw it.
Tony: Like I said very Tarantino.
Noreen: From that moment, I knew I was working with a man of great potential and yes, VERY Tarantino.
Tony: Before coming to work with Pro Visual, did you ever entertain the idea of working with the Deaf, especially on an equal basis/ level?
Noreen: Never. But only because I had never been exposed to the Deaf community, never came across a Deaf person who owned their own business.
Tony: And what did you think when you met Phil, a Deaf business owner?
Noreen: As an individual, I find him extremely intelligent and articulate. The medium he has chosen to express his creativity through fits him perfectly. And I can honestly say I am impressed by his determination and his aspirations. As a business owner, I have shared Phillip’s frustrations and have experienced through him the prejudices and ignorance of the wider world. It has opened my eyes.
Tony: How much of it is common to your experience as a woman in the workforce?
Noreen: Well, to be honest, I have had no problems in my working life. The greatest hindrance I see for Phillip is hearing people and their ignorance. It is interesting, because, when Phillip and I are at a meeting together, often the hearing person will address only me, which I find completely irritating and embarrassing. Other times, when it is not a pre-arranged meeting, people assume, because I sign to Phillip, that I am Deaf also, which can be quite funny.
Tony: Yes, that is funny.
Noreen: But the worst thing is to feel their condescension. Simply because communication is presented to them in a different manner often it scares them, and they don’t know how to react, or they think you are stupid because you don’t speak. I hate it.
I hate it because I have experienced it. I hate it because it embarrasses me to be a part of the Hearing community, but the only way to overcome it is to educate people on both sides
Tony: Are you able to do that as part of your work?
Noreen: Absolutely! And I am proud to say I work for Phillip – I think it says a great deal about both of us as individuals.
Tony: I’ve asked this question of a Deaf friend of mine, who has worked in various management, director, and CEO roles, and he says networking is a nightmare, for various reasons, one of which is overcoming that communication barrier and fear of Deafness. He has his own method of overcoming it, what methods do you employ? [See Damian Barry Interview]
Noreen: And his method is ?
Tony: If he is with an interpreter, he will explain the role of the interpreter and how the process works….putting them at ease.
Noreen: My method is to let people know if they wish to communicate with Phillip directly, they can email, sms, national relay service, or interpreter. Phillip’s command of English makes it easy to communicate with him in written form, and if they wish to speak with him, he lip reads.
Tony: Ah that trusty skill, lip-reading.
Noreen: It astounds me how he does it. I have tried – waaaay too hard!
Tony: I quite agree with you there, I am a bona fide Deafie, and find it damn hard to lip read. I get eye strain [cue: bored] and what about networking?
Noreen: Phillip’s outgoing personality means he is not afraid to approach people and make contacts. But of course it is easier for me to do so.
Tony: [Laughter] But how do you see your work with ProVisual in terms of your career? What do you get out of it professionally in terms of your own development?
Noreen: That’s easy my previous experience has been: retail, banking, primary school teacher, security guard, and customer service. Phillip is the first Deaf person I’ve worked with. The first artist I’ve worked with. The first photographer / film maker I’ve worked with. So this experience exposes me to a whole new field. This position in particular is a huge learning curve, because although I bring previous experience and skills to this job I have never actually worked in this field.
Tony: Do you see this as potentially a long term thing?
Noreen: Absolutely. One hundred per cent! Although I did write out my job description, should Phillip ever feel the need to hire someone new – [Laughter]
Tony: Well you can come work for me, we can’t let all that experience go to waste [Laughter]
Noreen: Now, Now Tony [mock scolding] At this point in time, I am fully focused on working with Phillip to get ProVisual off the ground. I am nothing if not loyal.
Tony: That’s a good thing, that. But if you do move on, you would be able to work in either the Deaf or Hearing worlds, or even a combination of both and do it quite successfully.
Noreen: For sure. Having experience working with a Deaf person also means I have the ability to put that in a resume – as coarse as that may sound.
Tony: Yes but I am thinking of your potential as a Hearing person to bridge the Deaf and Hearing worlds. Possibly providing or creating new services?
Noreen: That sounds rather ominous for an orindary Joe like me – [Laughter]
Tony: You don’t see that?
Noreen: I see it now that it has been brought to my attention.
Tony: But seriously Noreen, you know a hearing person who can sign but also has that attitude of embracing Deafness – that is a great thing to have.
Noreen: Yes, I understand that. But what I don’t think I am articulating particularly well is the fact that it just simply never occurred to me that I was doing anything special just by working with Phillip. And that’s the plain and simple truth of it all.
Tony: I have gathered that only I am projecting as a Deaf person who has never really seen it before and is excited by the possibilities you and Phillip offer, unassuming as you are, it’s there! We agree on that?
Noreen: Yeah, sure. Then spread the word, brother!! [Laughter]
Tony: [Laughter] Projecting further into your future where do you see yourself heading?
Noreen: Politics. Again, my son is a huge motivating factor. I don’t necessarily mean I will become an mp or anything (although the thought has crossed my mind)
Tony: [Smiling]
Noreen: but I would like to be involved in changing things for the better in relation to “Deaf related issues”.
Tony: Just Deaf related issues? What about better Deaf and hearing relationships? Or do you see one as a natural outcome of the other?
Noreen: Pffft!! Just by changing something like fully captioned TV would help Deaf and hearing relationships so yes, one would be a natural outcome stemming from the other.
Tony: So youu would agree with me, that in a sense, your current position is indeed inspirational if not groundbreaking?
Noreen: Agreed.
Tony: Yay! Deafie wins! [Laughter]
Noreen: Yeah….I am truly gobsmacked to think I can be such an influential person.
Tony: Well as Paul Kelly once sang: From little things big things grow!
Noreen: So true.
Tony: So you ought to be proud – it’s not just for us Deaf professionals, but also for your Deaf son who will see the possibilities for himself – his mum having successful relationships with Deaf people.
Noreen: And that is precisely why I will continue to do what I do. It is all for my son.
Tony: I cannot countenance that. Every mother I know says just as much.
Noreen: Of course.
Tony: But tell me have you ever been roped into being Phillip’s interpreter?
Noreen: [Laughter], Sometimes the occassion calls for it, but Phillip himself has never asked me to do that.
Tony: Not even at networking events?
Noreen: No. But I will give you an example. Phillip attended Rosemount Australian Fashion Week as an official photographer. I know if I had been able to attend as well, we would have gotten a whole lot more out of that event than we did. Simply because I am hearing and it would have been easier for me to talk with people.
Tony: OK, let me take it in a different direction. One of the exciting possibilities I think about, is carving out a new space where Deaf and Hearing can interact without so many limitations. A space where more Hearing people are encouraged to embrace Deafness and perhaps alternative communication methods.
Noreen: Yes, that would be utopia!
Tony: *thinking* Yes but that would be a topic for another time…
Noreen: Yeah.
Tony: And on that note Noreen, let’s tie up for now, I am getting google eyed. I would like to thank you for the opportunity to chat with. It’s been a pleasure.
Noreen: Cheers. Don’t forget that hot chocolate!
COMING: Monday 12 October, 2009
Tony: How does the business operate from different cities?
Noreen: Phillip Debs, the director of Pro Visual and I, use sms, video calls (both using mobile phones and the internet), instant messaging (like we are now), email and once, we even used the National Relay Service!
Tony: National Relay Service!? That’s ancient! [Laughter]
———————————————————————————————————————————————————————————-
I first met Noreen High, who works as a Personal Assistant for Phillip Deb’s ProVisual, on Facebook. Our paths crossed via one of a mutual friend’s status updates.
Apparently, my sense of humour is clarion call to arms: check out this fellow. He is funny.
And so began a communication exchange that culminated in an interview.
Noreen, herself, is hearing. As I mentioned previously, she works as PA for Phillip Debs, himself Deaf, who is the director of Provisual.
The interview was done in two takes, because the first one went hopelessly off track, due to mine own, lack of preparation. Sadly, in the editing process, some rather good anecdotes had to be dropped, nevertheless, the resulting interview is a rather interesting read, about a hearing person who has no qualms about working for a Deaf boss, or with Deaf people.
Her no nonsense attitude, is a wake up call, to people who still have issues when dealing with employees and professionals who are different.
INTERVIEW: Damian Barry, Director Deaf Answers
Tony: In all the time I have known you; you have followed a traditional career path, working your way up the ranks, in various “hierarchal” organisations.
Damian: Mmm….
Tony: That you have taken the step of starting up your own business, is a real eye opener?
Damian: Yes. After 22 years working in the voluntary charity, private and statutory sectors, I thought it was time to become independent and offer my services to everyone who wishes to take advantage of what I have to offer.
Tony: What was the turning point that prompted you to take the plunge?
Damian: Several things.
Tony: Can you elaborate?
Damian: After working up to being Chief Executive of Hearing Concern, I felt I had done everything by then and I wanted a different challenge. Over the last fifteen years, it became very obvious to me that Deaf people were getting a very raw deal in the workplace and in their careers,
Tony: Still the case!
Damian: …. and I thought it was time to try and develop something that allows Deaf professionals to choose what are the gaps and see if we can address them. We need to continue to allow Deaf people to progress in their lives in order to show others that Deaf Can Do It.
Tony: That’s your new business, Deaf Answers?
Damian: Yes. It is like a Life Coaching service. A holistic approach to each individual’s wants, needs and goals, and working with them towards achieving these own goals.
Tony: How does that differ to the training programmes you have run in the past?
Damian: The main different is those training programmes were designed with an organisation’s mission and objective in mind. Deaf Answers, my business, is centred on the individual’s mission and objectives.
Tony: From the feedback I am getting, to the best of my knowledge, it seems to be the very thing that Deaf people want, but is not being catered for, at least here in Australia.
Damian: That gap also exists here in the UK. In the last decade, we have seen huge advances in technology and communications, yet the fundamental need of Deaf people, the ability to work equally amongst their hearing peers, is impeded by the discrimination, prejudice, and obstacles that still exist.
Tony: Very frustrating for Deaf people, who see these huge changes, but still feel stymied by the slow pace change and lack of opportunity.
Damian: Deaf Answers is developing programmes that will address this fundamental need, among others, so that every Deaf People can become equipped with the tools and the experience, to develop a mechanism so that they can work on an equal footing with their hearing peers.
Tony: Looking at your resume, your career trajectory has changed from advancing up the ranks, working for a “hierarchal” organisation, becoming CEO [Hearing Concern], to one where you have set up a business that embraces the self.
Damian: Yes that is true. Mind you, there is nothing wrong with working for a “hierarchal” organisation. I suppose when one works for an organisation then your decisions are governed by that organisations’ objectives, whether it is to make a profit, or help a particular group of people to lobby govt to make changes.
Tony: Sure. Some people do have satisfying careers working for an employer.
Damian: I thought it would be better to remain independent, so that every organisation and their employees can benefit from what I have to offer. By being independent, I can serve and support organisation business, large and small group, without bias.
Tony: In the hearing world, there are people who change their career paths, to embrace the kind of change you have!
Damian: I suppose in the last 12 years my life approach has altered.
Tony: Are you happier?
Damian: Yes. Life needs to be looked at from a 360 degree view. So taking a holistic approach and working with the individual to look at all aspects of their lives: social, personal, professional, family, and so on, to reveal answers, for the individual in order to move forward.
Tony: I can concur with that and have witnessed the explosion of life coaching and mentoring services for Hearing people Deaf and hearing; as a testament to the drive for a better work and life balance.
Damian: And Deaf Answers is a Life Coaching and Mentoring service for Deaf people.
Tony: Now for the cliché. The question our curious readers want to ask, has your deafness been a barrier to your career? Has it hindered your ability to progress up the ranks so to speak?
Damian: My deafness has been a barrier. My personality and how I tackled those barriers has not hindered my advancement. Peoples’ perception of deafness or a deaf person often influences their judgement towards deaf people. The trick is to develop techniques that allows hearing peoples judgements and perceptions to be quietly challenged in order that they can be well informed and make a rational judgement in the future, and still have them on your side.
Tony: Yes that would be quite a skill to master.
Damian: That is the heart of how deaf people will progress in the future, it is what I did.
Tony: Could you give us an example of a technique u have employed to challenge negative perceptions of deafness.
Damian: Now I need to rack my brains, sift through 22 years, ok, the most common thing that a Deaf Professional hates in the everyday lives, is networking in predominantly hearing conference, environments where communication is always going to be a number one issue whether you have an interpreter or not. When you meet a hearing stranger for the first time, your first task is to reassure them even with an interpreter by highlighting the FACT you are DEAF, and if using an interpreter explain the interpreter role quickly while at the same time using a personality that engages the hearing person that will shift the initial perception of you as a deaf person.
Tony: Hmm..
Damian: Does that make sense?
Tony: Yes it does. Personality is an important component in the communication process.
Damian: Actually, personality I believe helps the engagement of two people to communicate together, and keeping them communicating together so that it reaches a point where both parties are comfortable with each other.
Tony: Going back to your resume, your career has allowed you to exercise many skills that many deaf people do not get an opportunity to do, especially in leadership positions.
Damian: Leadership skills are transferable skills, anyone can be a leader, some will find it easier to do and some will find it harder but it is all trainable, and if you look at all the leaders past present and future they will all have one thing in common that makes them stand out. That is PERSONALITY. Over time people have to examine their own persona and make adjustments where it is necessary in any given situation. I would go so far as to say leaders who do not possess personality are often those to hang on their positions using fear and dictatorial practices. Personality wins people over to you.
Tony: Yes. But I guess the question I was asking was you had the opportunity to utilise a range of skills that many deaf people don’t and especially in a position of responsibility, for example, CEO, leadership position!
Damian: I’m not sure I understand the question.
Tony: OK, let me explain. Looking at your resume, at the range of jobs you’ve had, you got to use and develop a range of skills that many deaf people don’t. That is actually using your brains and having your intellect challenged and on top of that you have often been in positions of leadership, of influence, which provide you with yet more challenges so as a person you could develop in ways that many deaf people don’t…
Damian: Yes I guess the fundamental thing I had was the understanding that over time things change and you need to adapt to those changes. I had the opportunity to receive a two year bursary for Coverdale where I undertook training with hearing people from large blue chip companies. I learned a range of techniques then to work with them as well as they learned how to shift their perceptions of me as a deaf person who really can do things irrespective of whether I was deaf or not. However, I would have to say that my real grounding was Leadership, learning to work in teams, managing teams, and leading teams. All the answers were there and they are the tools I use time and time again to progress forward. As for having positions of leadership that was actually a result of my progression.
Tony: Now I’m stuck for a question [laughs]
Damian: Positions are determined by other people who make the decision to appoint you they have to make a judgement and they do this by getting to know you, your skills, and your personality and how you interact with people.
Tony: Though you have never had a formal university education for your career? No degree to your name?
Damian: I have always wanted to go to university and get a degree. I even got a place to do the MBA at Reading University but circumstances never allowed me to take this up so in a way by looking at my resume, you can almost say I have a degree from the University of Life.
Tony: But that’s a good thing though?
Damian: I consider 22 years as a real apprenticeship, and the other thing to look at is the fact I managed to get a job as a CEO without a degree it shows it can be done. The interview panel and recruitment agency obviously looked at the range of positions and training I have undertaken in the last 22 years and must have concluded that this certainly qualifies as equivalent to having a degree. That’s why I call it the degree from the University of Life.
If you look at my resume, I have undertaken various high profile training courses. I am qualified as a trainer under the Institute of Personnel and Development and have delivered a range of training courses from Leadership to Management. I also underwent a two year bursary with Coverdale working with other people from blue chip companies like Esso, British Nuclear Fuels, British Gas, BP etc. During these two years I attended several week long courses such as strategic project management, manager as mentor, coach and strategist, as well as several one day courses. This was the best two years for my true personal development and allowed me to gain confidence to be equal to my hearing peers. Have a look at my resume to find out more details.
Tony: To that I agree. My hearing brother managed to forge himself a career without a degree or even passing his finals.
Damian: Provided you develop your experiences and utilise them to your advantage. Perhaps, [Smiles wryly] I should put in my resume that I have a degree from the University of Life, although I think that would sound facetious.
Tony: [Laughing] But overall, you can say that your life and work experiences to date have provided you with the necessary ground work to become a life coach, a person who can help others on an individual level.
Damian: Yes I think so. Having a formal education is only one part of the 360 degree view life.
Tony: Yes looking at deaf people now many of them are expressing interest in fields and work in areas where they are traditionally not seen in they are becoming aromatherapists, computer scientists, and as we have seen geophysicists, and so on.
Damian: That is what is exciting Deaf people are realising that they can go beyond the boundaries to do things that traditionally is not expected a deaf person would go. The key word here is Traditionally – and often the person who says it is not traditional, is usually the decision maker who has never experienced working with a deaf person, so although deaf people are breaking the boundaries they still face possible discrimination, as others who have never worked with a deaf person operate from their own initial perceptions of deaf people. Deaf professionals needs to help hearing people to change their initial perceptions quickly in order for them to progress further
Tony: That’s true. But the point is deaf people are pushing the boundaries…
Damian: Yes.
Tony: …and that is a good thing and now that someone such as yourself, becoming a life coach deaf people can have access to someone like themselves who can help them “realise” themselves. Achieve their true potential.
Damian: Deaf people are definitely pushing the boundaries, but once they get inside where they want to go, there are often internal discrimination and communication barriers, etc., that they must confront.
Tony: That is still true now as it ever was.
Damian: So being a life coach of service, I can work with deaf people to tackle the situations they experience once inside their chosen profession and fine tune the communication processes that will allow them to continue to make progress.
Tony: Yes.
Damian: One other thing, that is very real, that I have observed working with my clients. The reason why I talk about the 360 degree approach to life is very often in the work life balance the issues are really big in the workplace but are often bigger in the social family side of things especially with how the deaf person was brought up. We need to integrate everything and come up with a solution. For example, a deaf person might have a bad experience in childhood that makes them very hostile towards hearing people and that will need to be sorted out first before you can think of sorting out a work situation, on the other hand a deaf person had a great childhood where communication was never an issue and suddenly find in the real world communication is such a big issue. Every individual is different and unique and that I hope Deaf Answers looks at each one individually and work with the person to find their own unique deaf answer.
Tony: Do you see deaf people embracing the opportunity to become business owners, or forge professional careers, or create opportunities of their own, without relying on the traditional structures, e.g. deaf charities?
Damian: Yes I believe Deaf people have better opportunities in the future and be masters of their own destiny, however with more opportunities comes more barriers, and I worry that there are no systems in place to allow deaf people to overcome new barriers that come with the new opportunities. This is why I decided to create Deaf Answers. The world is becoming smaller, communities are becoming more technologically orientated, and physical organisations’ membership is under threat as individuals become more independent. With the IT world we live in, the need of physical organisation membership will decrease as people will have online communities instead. So yes, as deaf people excel in the future, their needs for deaf clubs deaf societies or deaf organisations will diminish as they become more integrated with IT communities instead.
Tony: What challenge does the internet and modern technology bring to how you will deliver your services?
Damian: World wide it brings a real challenge.
Tony: You spoke to me once of delivering an online training/ information sessions.
Damian: The video technology like OOvOO, means we can have face to face interaction with people at their computer but remember it is only two dimensional and one to one face to face opportunities are crucial.
Tony: Mm, mm…
Damian: I spoke to you about doing a DVD with examples of working with hearing people that will be one sided and will be generic in nature as every individual is different.
Tony: But some would say that technology is a complement to the real world.
Damian: Yes they would.
Tony: And that it is not meant to REPLACE but ENHANCE.
Damian: It is a complement and a hindrance.
Tony: But like everything in this world, it has its yin and yang.
Damian: Complement in widening your horizons and a hindrance because it has the potential to make you a social recluse.
Tony: Or a complement in that it allows us to have this conversation even though we are 12 000 miles apart and in different time zones.
Damian: And pretend to be a person that you would like to be rather than be the person who you are, yes communicating around the world actually shows the world is becoming a smaller place. Let’s hope they invest time travel next!
Tony: [laughing] Let’s go back to the DVD you mentioned, now with technology, it would allow people who otherwise would not be able to, due to circumstance, have access to information and training. It’s not meant to replace human contact…
Damian: That’s true.
Tony: Online interaction may not always be as satisfying as real life or geographical contact, as I would say.
Damian: They best way to learn things is with other human beings as that is real life and it closely resembles what you are experiencing in your life as well as being three dimensional.
Tony: Yes, and on that note, I think we will leave it there. Thank you very much for your time, Damian. [Thumbs up]
Damian: My pleasure [thumbs up]
For more information about Damian Barry and his new start-up, visit his website, Deaf Answers.
COMING: Monday 5 October, 2009
An interview with Damian Barry, professional trainer and owner of the new start up, Deaf Answers, will be published in GONE FISHING, on Monday 5th October, 2009.
Damian Barry is a qualified trainer, and professional Deaf person that has seen him work in a variety of training and management roles in Friends For The Young Deaf, British Deaf Association, the Red Cross, Hearing Concern, and has now set up his own business, Deaf Answers.
Damian is a long time friend of mine, and it has been good catching up with him. For those who, like me, have known Damian, the interview will be an eye opener.
INTERVIEW 02/08/09: Kyle Sterry, Geophysicist
It is quite difficult to explain, even to my geology friends – as it is seismic stuff.
Kyle, born and bred in Northumberland, northern England, and at the time of this interview, remains on the right side of 30. But only just!
He holds a BSc (Hons) Geoscience and Postgraduate Diploma in Disaster Management and Sustainable Development.
He has worked in many jobs in tourism, retail and government including a stint in France, and a Database Geoscientist at Shell, The Hague, before coming to current position as a Processing Geophysicist Quality Control for a large international onshore seismic company.
Kyle loves to travel, and has visited over 30 countries this decade. Including a two night stopover in Sydney, Australia, where Tony shouted him a Blue Tongued Lizard, and he [Kyle] promptly declared it, “Unbeer!”
Anyone want to go to Mongolia or Bhutan with him?
Tony: Tell me Kyle, what is your current job?
Kyle: I’m a Processing Geophysicist QC. Sadly the QC does not mean Queen’s Counsel, but Quality Control.
Tony: And what does that job entail?
Kyle: It is quite difficult to explain, even to my geology friends – as it is seismic stuff. So I’ll try and explain what we do and where in that my role is…
Tony: OK.
Kyle: My Company which is a major international seismic company, provides seismic survey services principally to the energy industry, and sometimes, to mining companies, academic institutions and government agencies. Occasionally we survey an area on our own initiative and then sell the data to many companies.
What we actually do is collect data of the underground, up to about 3 miles deep, depending on what our clients need to know. It works on a similar principal to sonar, used by ship to navigate around sea beds, or ultrasound on a pregnant woman.
The underground is a pretty complex thing – the Earth is a massive ball of layers upon layers, some all swished up or some are flat, and almost always with fault lines. These layers, in a certain way can harbour oil or gas.
Different clients are interested in different things. The energy industry is interested in oil and gas, while the mining industry wants to know where this or that layer will come up to the surface and move their operations there…
Tony: How did you end up in this field?
Kyle: ‘sec Tony
Tony: OK
Kyle: [continuing with his answer to the previous question]… We simply make a big bang directed into a ground using dynamite, vibrating machines or simple thumper truckers which are like a giant hammer slamming into the ground. That generates a signal which then passes through the underground and each layer bounces a little bit of that like echo back to the surface. An array of geophones – specialised microphones – picks up these tiny signals.
My role in that is to make sure all the signals are coming back in the right order, make sure no one put those microphones in the wrong place, and make sure the electronics and mechanisms are working as they should. Once I’m happy with that by checking all the data and running tests in the office, I switch from QC mode to processing mode – I process these to generate a rough image of the ground below.
I prepare those images and the raw data for shipment to clients along with a technical and non-technical report, and a whole myriad of operational reports along with that too.
As to “how did I get into the field?”
Tony: Yes.
Kyle: I graduated with a degree in Geoscience, intending to do either Geography or Computing. Anyone with an earth science, physics, mathematical or electronics degree can work in one of the roles in seismic. Myself, I took a postgraduate degree in an entirely different subject, eventually winding up at Shell in Holland as a subcontractor database geoscientist. That job was entirely office based and after consulting with a few trusted colleagues in Shell, I secured a job with a seismic company.
It’s pretty important to network with people, all the more important these days as many change jobs and careers much more than even 10 years ago, so people you work with will surprise you.
Tony: Can we hold the network question for now. What I’m interested in, is your choice of career. Most deaf people have traditionally looked to teaching, welfare, and similar sort of work, but you have chosen a career that has allowed you to work in other countries.
Kyle: Well, like you, I’m no big fan of brats, or a touchy feely person. A summer job at a park popular with such creatures ended up with them burning down a marquee and breaking into a cricket pavilion. I decided I’d best stop there before they burn a school down where I might have been a teacher at.
Tony: [laughing] Seriously?
Kyle: Yup, I was only 17. And it was a pretty rough area. But to be honest, I never really relished the idea of being a teacher anyway. I can imagine it is personally rewarding, for some people, but to progress, you become a headteacher who doesn’t teach but spend all his time catching up with red tape. Or go to a posh school and do essentially the same old thing for more money. Just does not appeal.
I like change too much.
Tony: Is that what attracted you to this job, the opportunity to travel and work in other countries?
Kyle: Spot on. For me, travel equals change. It keeps you on your toes. You learn new things; when you think you’ve seen it all, someone does something, and you fall over laughing or gobsmacked at such a cunning (or stupid) way (s) of doing something.
Tony: Hmmm…
Kyle: In my job, I work with people form up to 40 different nationalities. In my small department of four people, there’s four different nationalities – me, a Brit, an Iraqi, a Chinese and a Russian. My Company, as they go to different parts of the world, recruits some of the best local staff as long term employees. They also recruit graduates and interns from anywhere in the world.
Tony: Has your deafness been a barrier in this job?
Kyle: It present challenges, like it can in any job. As I work with people from all over the world, it can be difficult to hear what they are trying to say in mangled English. In a job like this, it’s not unusual to be rotated to different crews all the time, so every few months, just when you have gotten used to a person, you’re moved again.
I’m lucky in that I’m in a stable crew. The advantage is that you’re stuck with them during work, mealtimes and after work – so you tend to pick up their speech quicker than might otherwise be at a normal office job where you’re lucky to talk to people outside work.
Things like radio communications, I get someone else to handle that stuff for me – often other people with poor English do the same, so it’s not an unusual thing to do.
Tony: What about promotional prospects?
Kyle: One can become head of department, taking overall responsibility for the specialist staff members in it, liaison with the client company to get the best parameters for everyone, survey design and planning, and to lead technical problem solving. Occasionally that may mean working in the head offices in London or Houston preparing for the next project.
Beyond that, if one wishes to stay on crew, to become in charge of the whole crew and get things done, all the way to becoming an area manager responsible for crews across a continent and secure new jobs for them. Or one can go to the head office and hone in specialist skills, but that is at the risk of less travel.
Tony: Do you see yourself advancing in that direction?
Kyle: Ten years of experience in seismic quality control can lead to very lucrative salaries in other parts of the oil/gas industry.
I would like to, […become in charge of the whole crew and get things done, become an area manager responsible for crews across a continent and secure new jobs for them...or even move to the head office and hone in my specialist skills…] but I am an impatient man, and I like change; and I think the grass is greener on the other side.
I’m mindful that being away for so long from home can affect my social life and even health – so I don’t see myself doing this for many many years to come. That said, I like it enough at the moment and that may not change in 15 years’ time! I always keep one eye open for something else – as anyone should.
Tony: So you don’t see your current role as long term career prospect.
Kyle: I see it as a work in progress. Any job you do can lead to something else. I don’t believe we can be in a long term career in this day and age unless you’re very lucky or on an industry where it is always the same demand, such as teaching and welfare.
Tony: As you’ve related to me elsewhere, your job also provides you with interesting cultural experiences, which many people, let alone deaf people, would never get.
Kyle: Indeed – and that I think is very valuable – for me, they are the news to what is going on in the world. I worked with many Libyans, and they paint a different picture of the Middle East/North Africa than is what is publicised – the media is not interested in one single person’s thoughts – the unspoken majority if you like.
I didn’t know before coming to Libya that people from the north east really, really, really don’t like the people from the south-west – and they would fight like crazy.
Tony: What about deaf people? Have you met any in your work, or on your travels? Apart from me that is! [Tony gives smug smile]
Kyle: I haven’t met any in my line of work. I did meet a lone deaf traveller from Finland at Hong Kong airport; he was coming back from the Philippines and spoke excellent English. That was about it. To be honest, I’m surprised I didn’t see any more, especially seeing how many backpackers and tourists go to South East Asia.
It did strike me that in the country I work in now, it is such a poor country that a deaf person there would not have any hearing aids, or possibly access to education that included sign language. So if a local staff is deaf, his disability would be invisible or hidden. There are around 200-250 local staff, so it’s not like it is a small office and the vast majority of them work away from my field office.
Tony: Do you feel isolated because of your deafness?
Kyle: No not at all. Growing up, I don’t know any other deaf people. It isn’t any different now. I don’t see being deaf is a cultural thing like others do. I know that’s pretty controversial, but to me, there’s more to life than just being deaf. I’m not a big fan of being in like-for-like group – I tend to socialise with very different people.
Tony: It brings me back to the question of networking. How do you maintain a network, especially a professional network?
Kyle: Hmm, trying to figure out how to answer that… Technology is your friend here. Social network sites are great at keeping in touch with people – even those who don’t keep people posted about what they are up to. But one has to be careful how you use such sites, if you like to say you are drunk seven days a week, it’s not going to go down well with professionals.
That said, it can bring out another side to you, especially if you don’t know some of the colleagues well enough and one day one of them comes in and say “I didn’t know you like to go off-roading – I do too”.
But I have never put my boss on my social networks!
Tony: Yes, I quite agree, but the salient point is, the professional networking that can be important to one’s career.
Kyle: Other tools are forums out there which you can relate to – it doesn’t have to be your line of work, for example, I regularly check a forum for frequent flyers – it is full of professionals whinging about flying, they range from CEOs to minimum wage workers and it is a fantastic pool of contacts.
As I touched on briefly earlier, professional networking has got me two career jobs. I’m not one who makes friends easily and I like to think I’m lucky for friends who have got me those jobs. I’m not saying they did favours with those companies, but it can be something as simple as merely alerting you as to what is out there.
That’s important, as there are as many different types of jobs as there are web pages
Tony: Sure. But it is still important to network, for employment and career opportunities as well as socials with peers.
Kyle: Yup, you just don’t know what colleagues have done in the past or indeed, the future – especially in the oil/gas sector but I think it’s true in other areas as well.
And you don’t know what will happen in the future, you might decide to do something radically different and a colleague from a distant past has knowledge/experience to guide you or simply want to do the same thing and join in.
Some of the class mates from university, I’d have never pegged as being IT literate enough to use Excel efficiently enough to do some serious quality control checks, and they are now writing Visual Basic scripts and I’m learning from them rather than me telling them how to plug in a mouse.
Tony: Harking back to an earlier comment you made, regarding your life as a work in progress you see enjoying your life and the work you do as your career rather than the actual job u r doing?
Kyle: Yes, enjoying the work is much more important to me, than just executing the job. Anyone can execute a job, especially after training. It’s another thing to enjoy it, appreciate it or take pride in it. For me, I will do a job or career as long as I’m enjoying it – yet conscious that one day I may decide something else is more enjoyable.
Tony: So your choice of study was prompted by the prospect of travelled?
Kyle: My Geoscience degree?
Tony: Yes.
Kyle: I’ve always liked studying the earth since I was a wee brat; I like to know what our planet is doing underneath our feet and homes. The prospects of travel certainly helped to influence that decision. I imagine if I was more a touchy feely sort of bloke and want to do some kind of welfare/teaching, I’d be working in the tourism industry (did that) or doing TEFLs [Teaching English as a Foreign Language] around the world.
I make a conscious effort to look out for opportunities that provide ample travel.
Tony: I get quite an impression that your deafness is no barrier at all to your life and work. Do you think of yourself as a role model for other deaf people?
Kyle: No as I said before, I don’t see deafness as a big deal – I am very much a ‘just get on with it’ person. Barriers do come up, but I deal with it and move on or find an alternative. Everyone has their own quirks and challenges; I don’t see myself as any different.
Tony: And one last question, if I may? How do your work colleagues and superiors deal with your deafness, or you as a deaf person, as the case may be?
Kyle: It’s hard to answer that question, mostly because I’m quite stubborn – deal with it or go away. That said, no one really has any issues with my deafness. The crews being such a diverse group of people, many who don’t fully grasp English, the business language, people are more patient and tolerant.
I find if I don’t understand that person, then 90% of the staff don’t either. If it was something important, he’ll come back and make himself understood, to me or anyone else! Usually they gesture, draw or point to something that needs doing.
I’m also used to repeating myself – and in different ways, usually simplifying on each attempt in any situation, and this skill works well here with those who do not speak English as their main language.
One caveat – don’t expect things to be written down, many only know English as spoken, not as written, especially those who aren’t familiar with the Latin alphabet (most of Asia, Indian sub-continent, Middle East and North Africa and Russia). Who’s the hardest to understand? Australians, French and Siberians!
On the whole, it’s a more tolerant environment without people being over touchy feely or overcompensating like your average social worker tends to.
Tony: Kyle, I think we’ll leave it there. Thanks very much for your time. Mate, it’s been a pleasure.
Kyle: No problems Tone. The pleasure is all mine! But please, no more Blue Tongue Lizards!
And Back Is We…
After much thinking, and being sidetracked, and working hard, I have finally consolidated Professional Deaf Australians under a new domain name, and this blog Gone Fishing, which doubles as a newsletter.
The list of professional deaf people, that I plan to interview, grows longer.
I will be republishing one interview with Kerry Styles, a Geophysicist, as well as bringing you two brand new interviews. One with Damian Barry, who has recently set up his own business Deaf Answers, and Noreen Haigh of ProVisual.
If you have an article or item of interest, feel free to submit it to us. Better still, if you want to write for us, contact us with your proposal.
Gone Fishing
GONE FISHING
Gone Fishing is our online newsletter/ blog. The title GONE FISHING was inspired by the Chinese Proverb:
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. [Source]
With that in mind, Gone Fishing will be filled with resources on all aspects of business and professional career building, case studies, interviews, inspirational stories, and motivational tales aimed at Deaf people.
Meanwhile, you can read more about me here, and have a garner at the Editorial & Comments Policy.
Cheers,
Tony aka Mephisto